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Interview with Jim Kendros
by George Leverett / December 2011 Jim is a full time performer in the Chicago area. Between performances he can be found offering the pre-concert lecture for several orchestras (ongoing), and hosting a local radio program. More can be found at his website: http://jimkendrosmusic.com/Welcome.html This interview was conducted around the time of Jim's first hurdy gurdy performance with the Northbrook Symphony Orchestra. This is the first interview on this new section of our website, and as such I feel a bit of introduction is in order. It's no secret that Jim is featured throughout our website. We first got to know him when he ordered a hurdy gurdy from us in 2006. In October he came out from Chicago to pick up his new instrument, but his schedule kept getting delayed (flights / traffic /etc). Hours became days and, when all was said & done, it worked out so that he arrived right at the exact moment Anwyn and I were having our anniversary party (we were married in October). Of course, everyone at our party was in costume, and it was such a beautiful evening that we all ended up doing folk dancing in the moonlight (we were calling contra dance steps, complete with live acoustic music). I felt for Jim, feeling fairly certain that he & his partner Kristin must have thought we were absolutely mad! But Jim, ever gregarious and good natured, joined right in on the festivities. Over the years we've kept in pretty close contact, and nowadays Jim even helps brainstorm & playtest many of our new features before we put them into production. I feel fortunate to know him, and am very proud to be able to profile this excellent musician as the first in our interview series. I must warn you that when we get to talking, we can go for a while (hence the length of this interview). Enjoy! |
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GL: What was your musical background before the hurdy gurdy?
JK: It was long and varied really. My brother was in a rock band in the 1960's and he was really a great inspiration to me (this would have been in the mid 1960's). I decided I wanted to get in a rock band myself, so I started playing bass guitar when I was in the 8th grade. Then I heard the legendary, groundbreaking 'Switched on Bach' by Walter Carlos where he would play Bach on the synthesizer, and I realized that instead of playing rock & roll patterns on the bass, I could actually play melodies on the bass. That turned me on to Bach. Then I wanted to play violin in my freshman year of high school, and I heard the concertos by Bach for multiple harpsichords & orchestra. By then I was totally hooked and I wanted to do classical music, mostly Baroque stuff. It wasn't until 2000, about 30 years later, that I decided to get a hurdy gurdy, once I had heard of it.
GL: Thanks for the background. What first ignited your interest in the hurdy gurdy?
JK: That's an interesting story. As a music historian I've always been really interested in unusual keyboard and string instruments, and also winds. Anything historical, but especially keyboards & strings. That's what turned me on to the harpsichord and clavichord. As I began to study more in the 1990's about rare string instruments, I was led to the nyckelharpa, which is a very precious instrument to me, and then I did a little more research and found that the direct relative of the nyckelharpa is the hurdy gurdy. Somewhere in my studies, before I even got to that point, I knew there was an instrument back there that you turned the crank, and there was a wheel and all sorts of different sounds that you could get. But it wasn't until after I started to play the nyckelharpa in 1997 that I did a bit more background work on that and discovered this direct relative to the nyckelharpa, the hurdy gurdy. That really spurred my interest. I got a music program that had sample clips of different instruments, including the hurdy gurdy, and that was it for me! I was totally hooked. Shortly after that I made your acquaintance and the rest is history.
GL: When you first started playing the hurdy gurdy, what did you find to be the most difficult aspect of the instrument?
JK: It's actually twofold. First of all the trompette. That's the most artistically challenging aspect of the instrument, there's no question about that! I'm always trying to get different rhythmic effects with the trompette. The other aspect I discovered was very difficult about the hurdy is when you're doing the breaking in period, the second octave is difficult to get the sounds that you want with the lower octave. It's a twofold process of me learning how to break the instrument in and really getting that right sound in there. In terms of actual playing technique I feel that the second octave is harder as well because the keys are so close together. Sometimes you can do rapid passages like that, but to do composers like Haydn and Bach, you really have to have a light touch on the second octave.
GL: Let's talk about your work playing the hurdy gurdy. Describe your average workweek, what's your most frequent performance venue?
JK: I do a lot of lectures, mostly at libraries and senior centers. I've included not only the nyckelharpa, but also the hurdy gurdy as a part of my lecturing, and I'll give mini-concerts on the hurdy gurdy. With the hurdy gurdy especially, I like to talk about the history of stringed instruments, and show the people, and then play several selections on it. I'm playing the hurdy gurdy in my lectures about three to five times a day. In addition to that I have orchestral performances, like my recent one with the Northbrook symphony. I'd like to have more of that, where I appear as a concert artist. I also compose a great deal for the hurdy gurdy. I have some concertos inspired by winter, and I'm using the hurdy gurdy with a small string orchestra with that. I'm really trying to explore the different orchestral possibilities of the hurdy gurdy.
GL: Let's go back to your lectures. How do audiences generally respond to the hurdy gurdy in a lecture setting?
JK: Initially there was a little bit of a surprise, because they had never seen an instrument like this. I always get the most incredible 'oohs' and 'aaahs' and 'what's that?' as I take it out of the case. I realize that many people aren’t' familiar with this instrument at all, so I thought a good strategy would be to play music that they already know. Particularly music that has a Celtic sound, like a bagpipe. I play Amazing Grace, Scotland the Brave, Scarborough Faire, Greensleeves, and then around the holidays I like to throw in We Three Kings and Joy To The World, and people just love it. I always tell them it's like discovering an old friend in a new way. The old friend being the familiar song, but played a new way with the hurdy gurdy. There's a festive quality about it, particularly when I use the trompette, that people really just love. Overall it's been a very positive response
GL: Interest insight into your repertoire, thank you for that. What other sorts of venues do you play? I know that you recently performed at an art show.
JK: Yes, I do a lot of art shows; I enjoy them a great deal. The vibes at art shows are really great, because everything is so creative. People are there for creativity, and it takes my playing to a different level because I love to get carried away by that 'wave'. It's a lot of fun. I'm also doing some historical societies. For example there's the wonderful Charles Gates Dawes house. He was Vice President under Calvin Coolidge, and his house is maintained by the Evanston Historical Society (in case your readers want to Google that). It's just an amazing home, and I play there every Christmas. It's very festive and they really decorate this beautiful old Victorian mansion. So I do a lot of art shows, historical societies, men's groups, women's clubs, senior centers, and libraries.
GL: Interesting, so let's talk about those audiences. Do they respond differently to the hurdy gurdy than the lecture audiences?
JK: They really do. I think that with the lecture audiences it's understood that it's a lecture. Even though I don't put this on them, they seem to feel obligated to sit and listen as though they're in a classical concert hall, which is fine. But then at a Christmas party or art show, people will clap their hands and sometimes dance a little bit. They come up close and look at it while I'm playing, I think it's more of the festival type setting. I like both kinds of venues. I think the most conservative audience is the concert hall audience. I think on a scale from 'most conservative' to most laid back, it would be the concert setting, then lectures, then men’s & women's groups, and then the most relaxed being art shows, historic societies, and that sort of thing.
GL: It sounds like the art show & Christmas fair crowds are much more interactive with your performance.
JK: Very interactive! I see the little child in people really activated in grown ups. They get so enamored with the hurdy gurdy, and they want to touch the wheel. I remember this one woman who really wanted to touch the wheel, and I said to her 'please don't do that'. I could see the little kid in her just really took over and she so wanted to touch the wheel. I think even the adults even have a sense of wonderment as they get up close to it.
GL: So what happened? Did she pull it off? Did she get in there on the wheel, or were you able to thwart her advances?
JK: (laughs) I tell you what, she got in there underneath the wheel cover and I had to stop and tell her 'please don't touch that'. She asked 'why not?' And I said 'well, you know as a string player about rosin and finger grease and everything', and she said 'oh, OK'. She got pretty far! I think another 1 or 2 seconds more and I would have had to call you about a wheel service.
GL: I think that's the one complaint we deal with most often too. People aim for that wheel, as though they psychically know that it's off limits therefore they must touch it at all costs!
JK: Oh yeah! What I often do, particularly at art shows and festivals, I'll play with the wheel cover off so people can see the wheel go round, and they're pretty fascinated by that.
GL: While we're on the topic of performing, what would you say is your worst hurdy gurdy experience in front of an audience?
JK: Boy, that's a good question. I can give you several. Do you want like five of them, with the least leading up to the worst one? Or the worst one first?
GL: I leave it to your discretion Jim.
JK: I'll start with the worst one. What really comes to mind is when the economy first tanked, I was given this job to play at a fundraising event for one of Chicago's major ensembles. At first I was thrilled, but as the evening approached I began to get a little more of a foreboding feeling. I think the reason for that was I heard down through the grape vine 'we're not sure how this is going to go' and 'people don't want to give'. To make a long story short, by the time that fateful evening occurred we were running two hours late, the auction wasn't going anywhere, and then they were supposed to bring on the entertainment who was supposed to make everyone forget about their problems; that was me. They liked the nyckelharpa alright, I think they liked my piano playing alright, but I brought out the hurdy gurdy. There were several conductors in the audience, several string players, and I think people just weren't in a receptive mood. Let's just say I think the laughing and hissing in the background wasn't because they were getting into the music. I don't really ascribe that to the hurdy gurdy, I ascribe it more to the bad times that we were all going through. No one was in a good mood. Looking back on it, I probably wasn't playing to the right audience, they probably would have liked a cellist or concert pianist more. Another one where I was playing to a pre concert lecture one time, and someone called out 'What a funky instrument that is'. I had to stop and put on my scholarly face, and say "if you want to call an instrument with over 81 moving parts funky, and something that was central to the Catholic church funky, and something the Queen Elizabeth the first was reputed to have played as funky", and I kept listing all these things, then I said "be my guest, but music historians don't use the word 'funky' unless we're talking about Motown from the 1960's. We all laughed about that, but be that as it may the person who called it 'funky' kept referring to it as 'funky' later on.
JK: It was long and varied really. My brother was in a rock band in the 1960's and he was really a great inspiration to me (this would have been in the mid 1960's). I decided I wanted to get in a rock band myself, so I started playing bass guitar when I was in the 8th grade. Then I heard the legendary, groundbreaking 'Switched on Bach' by Walter Carlos where he would play Bach on the synthesizer, and I realized that instead of playing rock & roll patterns on the bass, I could actually play melodies on the bass. That turned me on to Bach. Then I wanted to play violin in my freshman year of high school, and I heard the concertos by Bach for multiple harpsichords & orchestra. By then I was totally hooked and I wanted to do classical music, mostly Baroque stuff. It wasn't until 2000, about 30 years later, that I decided to get a hurdy gurdy, once I had heard of it.
GL: Thanks for the background. What first ignited your interest in the hurdy gurdy?
JK: That's an interesting story. As a music historian I've always been really interested in unusual keyboard and string instruments, and also winds. Anything historical, but especially keyboards & strings. That's what turned me on to the harpsichord and clavichord. As I began to study more in the 1990's about rare string instruments, I was led to the nyckelharpa, which is a very precious instrument to me, and then I did a little more research and found that the direct relative of the nyckelharpa is the hurdy gurdy. Somewhere in my studies, before I even got to that point, I knew there was an instrument back there that you turned the crank, and there was a wheel and all sorts of different sounds that you could get. But it wasn't until after I started to play the nyckelharpa in 1997 that I did a bit more background work on that and discovered this direct relative to the nyckelharpa, the hurdy gurdy. That really spurred my interest. I got a music program that had sample clips of different instruments, including the hurdy gurdy, and that was it for me! I was totally hooked. Shortly after that I made your acquaintance and the rest is history.
GL: When you first started playing the hurdy gurdy, what did you find to be the most difficult aspect of the instrument?
JK: It's actually twofold. First of all the trompette. That's the most artistically challenging aspect of the instrument, there's no question about that! I'm always trying to get different rhythmic effects with the trompette. The other aspect I discovered was very difficult about the hurdy is when you're doing the breaking in period, the second octave is difficult to get the sounds that you want with the lower octave. It's a twofold process of me learning how to break the instrument in and really getting that right sound in there. In terms of actual playing technique I feel that the second octave is harder as well because the keys are so close together. Sometimes you can do rapid passages like that, but to do composers like Haydn and Bach, you really have to have a light touch on the second octave.
GL: Let's talk about your work playing the hurdy gurdy. Describe your average workweek, what's your most frequent performance venue?
JK: I do a lot of lectures, mostly at libraries and senior centers. I've included not only the nyckelharpa, but also the hurdy gurdy as a part of my lecturing, and I'll give mini-concerts on the hurdy gurdy. With the hurdy gurdy especially, I like to talk about the history of stringed instruments, and show the people, and then play several selections on it. I'm playing the hurdy gurdy in my lectures about three to five times a day. In addition to that I have orchestral performances, like my recent one with the Northbrook symphony. I'd like to have more of that, where I appear as a concert artist. I also compose a great deal for the hurdy gurdy. I have some concertos inspired by winter, and I'm using the hurdy gurdy with a small string orchestra with that. I'm really trying to explore the different orchestral possibilities of the hurdy gurdy.
GL: Let's go back to your lectures. How do audiences generally respond to the hurdy gurdy in a lecture setting?
JK: Initially there was a little bit of a surprise, because they had never seen an instrument like this. I always get the most incredible 'oohs' and 'aaahs' and 'what's that?' as I take it out of the case. I realize that many people aren’t' familiar with this instrument at all, so I thought a good strategy would be to play music that they already know. Particularly music that has a Celtic sound, like a bagpipe. I play Amazing Grace, Scotland the Brave, Scarborough Faire, Greensleeves, and then around the holidays I like to throw in We Three Kings and Joy To The World, and people just love it. I always tell them it's like discovering an old friend in a new way. The old friend being the familiar song, but played a new way with the hurdy gurdy. There's a festive quality about it, particularly when I use the trompette, that people really just love. Overall it's been a very positive response
GL: Interest insight into your repertoire, thank you for that. What other sorts of venues do you play? I know that you recently performed at an art show.
JK: Yes, I do a lot of art shows; I enjoy them a great deal. The vibes at art shows are really great, because everything is so creative. People are there for creativity, and it takes my playing to a different level because I love to get carried away by that 'wave'. It's a lot of fun. I'm also doing some historical societies. For example there's the wonderful Charles Gates Dawes house. He was Vice President under Calvin Coolidge, and his house is maintained by the Evanston Historical Society (in case your readers want to Google that). It's just an amazing home, and I play there every Christmas. It's very festive and they really decorate this beautiful old Victorian mansion. So I do a lot of art shows, historical societies, men's groups, women's clubs, senior centers, and libraries.
GL: Interesting, so let's talk about those audiences. Do they respond differently to the hurdy gurdy than the lecture audiences?
JK: They really do. I think that with the lecture audiences it's understood that it's a lecture. Even though I don't put this on them, they seem to feel obligated to sit and listen as though they're in a classical concert hall, which is fine. But then at a Christmas party or art show, people will clap their hands and sometimes dance a little bit. They come up close and look at it while I'm playing, I think it's more of the festival type setting. I like both kinds of venues. I think the most conservative audience is the concert hall audience. I think on a scale from 'most conservative' to most laid back, it would be the concert setting, then lectures, then men’s & women's groups, and then the most relaxed being art shows, historic societies, and that sort of thing.
GL: It sounds like the art show & Christmas fair crowds are much more interactive with your performance.
JK: Very interactive! I see the little child in people really activated in grown ups. They get so enamored with the hurdy gurdy, and they want to touch the wheel. I remember this one woman who really wanted to touch the wheel, and I said to her 'please don't do that'. I could see the little kid in her just really took over and she so wanted to touch the wheel. I think even the adults even have a sense of wonderment as they get up close to it.
GL: So what happened? Did she pull it off? Did she get in there on the wheel, or were you able to thwart her advances?
JK: (laughs) I tell you what, she got in there underneath the wheel cover and I had to stop and tell her 'please don't touch that'. She asked 'why not?' And I said 'well, you know as a string player about rosin and finger grease and everything', and she said 'oh, OK'. She got pretty far! I think another 1 or 2 seconds more and I would have had to call you about a wheel service.
GL: I think that's the one complaint we deal with most often too. People aim for that wheel, as though they psychically know that it's off limits therefore they must touch it at all costs!
JK: Oh yeah! What I often do, particularly at art shows and festivals, I'll play with the wheel cover off so people can see the wheel go round, and they're pretty fascinated by that.
GL: While we're on the topic of performing, what would you say is your worst hurdy gurdy experience in front of an audience?
JK: Boy, that's a good question. I can give you several. Do you want like five of them, with the least leading up to the worst one? Or the worst one first?
GL: I leave it to your discretion Jim.
JK: I'll start with the worst one. What really comes to mind is when the economy first tanked, I was given this job to play at a fundraising event for one of Chicago's major ensembles. At first I was thrilled, but as the evening approached I began to get a little more of a foreboding feeling. I think the reason for that was I heard down through the grape vine 'we're not sure how this is going to go' and 'people don't want to give'. To make a long story short, by the time that fateful evening occurred we were running two hours late, the auction wasn't going anywhere, and then they were supposed to bring on the entertainment who was supposed to make everyone forget about their problems; that was me. They liked the nyckelharpa alright, I think they liked my piano playing alright, but I brought out the hurdy gurdy. There were several conductors in the audience, several string players, and I think people just weren't in a receptive mood. Let's just say I think the laughing and hissing in the background wasn't because they were getting into the music. I don't really ascribe that to the hurdy gurdy, I ascribe it more to the bad times that we were all going through. No one was in a good mood. Looking back on it, I probably wasn't playing to the right audience, they probably would have liked a cellist or concert pianist more. Another one where I was playing to a pre concert lecture one time, and someone called out 'What a funky instrument that is'. I had to stop and put on my scholarly face, and say "if you want to call an instrument with over 81 moving parts funky, and something that was central to the Catholic church funky, and something the Queen Elizabeth the first was reputed to have played as funky", and I kept listing all these things, then I said "be my guest, but music historians don't use the word 'funky' unless we're talking about Motown from the 1960's. We all laughed about that, but be that as it may the person who called it 'funky' kept referring to it as 'funky' later on.
GL: That's a funny story. We all have our horror stories. I've heard of some players who become so upset with people use the term 'hurdy gurdy man'. Other players won't have a problem with that at all, it will be something else that will for whatever reason evoke a response along the lines of 'let's shape up now when referring to the instrument'.
JK: You bring up a good point. I find that when people call me the 'hurdy gurdy man', I kind of like that because it's a distinguishing feature. In fact I kind of play on it and say 'I'd like to be your hurdy gurdy guy' and they all laugh at that. There's always going to be a smart aleck in the audience, you can count on it, every audience has at least one. To diffuse it I'll usually say something funny and usually people just forget about it.
I'll give you an example of this one time I was talking to a prominent musician. I can't say his name out of respect for his privacy, but he started working with me and we were at a party together. I felt more bad for him than for me, but his wife is a violinist and she was present at that one lecture when that person called my instrument 'funky', and so she said 'hey look! It's that funky instrument again'. I didn't mind too much, but her husband looked like he was completely embarrassed. Whenever stuff like that happens I usually just laugh it off and shift the energy back to what's really important, which is the beauty of the instrument.
GL: That's a fun story. I know from our own experiences that we always get the one guy who says 'Can you play In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida', which is in no way reflective of our repertoire. I think there's one in every crowd.
JK: There is. I get that all the time, say "can you play 'Clair De Lune' on that thing?". One of the experiences I always get, keep in mind I play for a lot of senior audiences, they're experience of the hurdy gurdy is the monkey and organ grinder. Which of course isn't a hurdy gurdy at all, but rather a big music box. Anyhow, they say 'where's the monkey? ha ha ha'. They always say that like it's the first time any person has said that and they think it's a great joke. I get that one at least two times a day.
GL: Let's go the other way, what's your best hurdy gurdy performance experience?
JK: Playing with the Northbrook Symphony. I loved every second of it, I want to do that again. Composing for the instrument, knowing that someday (soon I hope) it will be performed with orchestra. I love composing for the instrument. Also, there was this one time when I first received the first instrument you sold me in '06, I composed this piece and it was going to be to a holiday inspired concerto. I had been working on this concerto on & off, but basically it's inspired by the French Noels. I take things that are common to all of us, like Noel of the Christmas tree or Noel of the Falling Snow, or something that. In other words, song of the falling snow. There's this one I wrote called Noel of the Kids Building Snow Men for violin and hurdy gurdy. I showed it to this very wonderful concert violinist. We were playing along and she was smiling and it was fun, and that was one of my best experiences ever.
GL: You mentioned the concert a moment ago. If you don't mind, I would like to talk about that for a few minutes. The orchestra gig is somewhat atypical of what most hurdy gurdy players will be doing, so I'm a little curious about the process. How far in advance of the concert did you begin practicing for that one?
JK: I tell you what, I was practicing for that one as early as possible. Your instrument, the Aquitaine you built for me, arrived Sept 10 2010. I began practicing the day I received it. I pretty much practiced every day from Sept 10 all the way up to Feb 27th. That was interrupted a little bit with my piano work on my upcoming c.d. 'Fermata's Journey', we were recording that in late October and November. But basically I was practicing every day. I learned from my teachers that if you're going to be on that concert stage you have to live, eat, drink, breathe, and sleep that music, practicing it all the time. By the time you get in front of the audience...you know you don't have time to think about the music, your fingers just have to take over and just do it.
GL: I happen to know that you performed that on an instrument set up in the G/C tuning. I wonder, how did the music fit with that? Did you have to do any serious reworking of the piece to make it viable for the hurdy gurdy? Or was it a pretty good fit to start with? NOTE: The music performed at the concert was Haydn's Notturno
JK: With the G/C tuning, the music fit perfectly. Haydn was writing for the Lira Organizzati which is like a hurdy gurdy, only with little flute/organ pipes with it. We didn't really have to transpose anything, or even rearrange any notes. There was a problem with some of the passages where he had eighth notes that were repeated. So we had to play two c's, two a's, two g's very quickly. Getting that accentuated on the wheel took a little time. We had to figure out different types of phrasings for that. It really was all right, it just had to be worked with. I think the Lira Organizzati does have some type of mechanisms to allow for the pipes to open up, so repeated notes would be more like an organ on that instrument, whereas on the hurdy gurdy we have the wheel and the strings. I really had to do some minute accentuations to make it sound like a repeated note. Also, the ascending scale passages, particularly in the first movement, proved very difficult to do smoothly. I remember the irony that the day after the performance, I felt they were a lot easier (laughs!) The music that Haydn wrote fit beautifully. It was quite charming, I think Haydn himself would have liked it.
GL: You mention the repeated notes. So, you would use the wheel accent the repeating eighth notes rather than the trompette, or a grace note?
JK: I tried different effects. First of all, the music director felt that the trompette would not fit in with the orchestra. I respect his call on that, he's the boss. I think that particularly during the Finale it would have been great, and it would have been a great aid to me to help accentuate those repeating notes. What I was able to do, I experimented with giving slight accentuations on the upturn, so right when I was at the uppermost point at the revolution of the wheel, I would give it a little more push and it was just right for the Haydn. Let's say you're going forward with the wheel, and you're on the lower side/under side of it's rotation. When you're coming up again on that revolution just giving it a little more 'oompff' seemed to do the trick. The other thing that I did which seemed to work fairly well....the director felt it was a little 'rattle-y' but I liked it myself, and this would only work with two chanters so you have enough resistance: You take the wheel, leave it in it's upright position, and take the back of your palm where your thumb is, and just tap it real quick as you're going down. It produces a lot of repeated notes. And then when it's no longer at that point, grab the handle and bring it up again. That was enough to get me through the repeated passages, I could do that like a da-da-da-da-da-da-daaaaaa (spoken very quickly) and then the notes would be longer so I would grab the handle more firmly for the longer notes.
GL: Great stuff! Thank you. Throughout the majority of the first movement, it sounds like you're fairly much just sticking to one chanterelle. In the second movement it sounds like you add a low octave 'g' chanter, and then in the third movement you're back to your higher pitched chanters. What was your approach to coming up with the arrangements to that, by which I mean which string goes where for which movement and what piece?
JK: I love the Aquitaine for it's upbeat sound. It's got a delightedly celebratory sound that's very sweet and at the same time very bright like a trumpet. Not the trompette on the hurdy gurdy, but like a real trumpet. I felt that for the two outer movements that that instrument would really sing. I just loved it for that. It had all the gaiety and sprightly charm that I think Haydn loved. For the middle movement, because it's so sweet and luscious, I felt that the larger instrument, the LaPriel would give me more of a cutting edge with that deep richness. I loved the lower strings on it for that, plus I could do a lot more of like a cello vibrato on that, and it came off just fine. I love the idea of switching instruments, in fact a lot of the players asked me 'Why do you switch instruments?' and I explained it live. They were quite interested in that.
GL: I notice that you change from one instrument to another between the first and second movement. I've never seen that before in a concert setting. Tell how that worked, live in front the audience with the orchestra at your back.
JK: You bring up a good point. I find that when people call me the 'hurdy gurdy man', I kind of like that because it's a distinguishing feature. In fact I kind of play on it and say 'I'd like to be your hurdy gurdy guy' and they all laugh at that. There's always going to be a smart aleck in the audience, you can count on it, every audience has at least one. To diffuse it I'll usually say something funny and usually people just forget about it.
I'll give you an example of this one time I was talking to a prominent musician. I can't say his name out of respect for his privacy, but he started working with me and we were at a party together. I felt more bad for him than for me, but his wife is a violinist and she was present at that one lecture when that person called my instrument 'funky', and so she said 'hey look! It's that funky instrument again'. I didn't mind too much, but her husband looked like he was completely embarrassed. Whenever stuff like that happens I usually just laugh it off and shift the energy back to what's really important, which is the beauty of the instrument.
GL: That's a fun story. I know from our own experiences that we always get the one guy who says 'Can you play In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida', which is in no way reflective of our repertoire. I think there's one in every crowd.
JK: There is. I get that all the time, say "can you play 'Clair De Lune' on that thing?". One of the experiences I always get, keep in mind I play for a lot of senior audiences, they're experience of the hurdy gurdy is the monkey and organ grinder. Which of course isn't a hurdy gurdy at all, but rather a big music box. Anyhow, they say 'where's the monkey? ha ha ha'. They always say that like it's the first time any person has said that and they think it's a great joke. I get that one at least two times a day.
GL: Let's go the other way, what's your best hurdy gurdy performance experience?
JK: Playing with the Northbrook Symphony. I loved every second of it, I want to do that again. Composing for the instrument, knowing that someday (soon I hope) it will be performed with orchestra. I love composing for the instrument. Also, there was this one time when I first received the first instrument you sold me in '06, I composed this piece and it was going to be to a holiday inspired concerto. I had been working on this concerto on & off, but basically it's inspired by the French Noels. I take things that are common to all of us, like Noel of the Christmas tree or Noel of the Falling Snow, or something that. In other words, song of the falling snow. There's this one I wrote called Noel of the Kids Building Snow Men for violin and hurdy gurdy. I showed it to this very wonderful concert violinist. We were playing along and she was smiling and it was fun, and that was one of my best experiences ever.
GL: You mentioned the concert a moment ago. If you don't mind, I would like to talk about that for a few minutes. The orchestra gig is somewhat atypical of what most hurdy gurdy players will be doing, so I'm a little curious about the process. How far in advance of the concert did you begin practicing for that one?
JK: I tell you what, I was practicing for that one as early as possible. Your instrument, the Aquitaine you built for me, arrived Sept 10 2010. I began practicing the day I received it. I pretty much practiced every day from Sept 10 all the way up to Feb 27th. That was interrupted a little bit with my piano work on my upcoming c.d. 'Fermata's Journey', we were recording that in late October and November. But basically I was practicing every day. I learned from my teachers that if you're going to be on that concert stage you have to live, eat, drink, breathe, and sleep that music, practicing it all the time. By the time you get in front of the audience...you know you don't have time to think about the music, your fingers just have to take over and just do it.
GL: I happen to know that you performed that on an instrument set up in the G/C tuning. I wonder, how did the music fit with that? Did you have to do any serious reworking of the piece to make it viable for the hurdy gurdy? Or was it a pretty good fit to start with? NOTE: The music performed at the concert was Haydn's Notturno
JK: With the G/C tuning, the music fit perfectly. Haydn was writing for the Lira Organizzati which is like a hurdy gurdy, only with little flute/organ pipes with it. We didn't really have to transpose anything, or even rearrange any notes. There was a problem with some of the passages where he had eighth notes that were repeated. So we had to play two c's, two a's, two g's very quickly. Getting that accentuated on the wheel took a little time. We had to figure out different types of phrasings for that. It really was all right, it just had to be worked with. I think the Lira Organizzati does have some type of mechanisms to allow for the pipes to open up, so repeated notes would be more like an organ on that instrument, whereas on the hurdy gurdy we have the wheel and the strings. I really had to do some minute accentuations to make it sound like a repeated note. Also, the ascending scale passages, particularly in the first movement, proved very difficult to do smoothly. I remember the irony that the day after the performance, I felt they were a lot easier (laughs!) The music that Haydn wrote fit beautifully. It was quite charming, I think Haydn himself would have liked it.
GL: You mention the repeated notes. So, you would use the wheel accent the repeating eighth notes rather than the trompette, or a grace note?
JK: I tried different effects. First of all, the music director felt that the trompette would not fit in with the orchestra. I respect his call on that, he's the boss. I think that particularly during the Finale it would have been great, and it would have been a great aid to me to help accentuate those repeating notes. What I was able to do, I experimented with giving slight accentuations on the upturn, so right when I was at the uppermost point at the revolution of the wheel, I would give it a little more push and it was just right for the Haydn. Let's say you're going forward with the wheel, and you're on the lower side/under side of it's rotation. When you're coming up again on that revolution just giving it a little more 'oompff' seemed to do the trick. The other thing that I did which seemed to work fairly well....the director felt it was a little 'rattle-y' but I liked it myself, and this would only work with two chanters so you have enough resistance: You take the wheel, leave it in it's upright position, and take the back of your palm where your thumb is, and just tap it real quick as you're going down. It produces a lot of repeated notes. And then when it's no longer at that point, grab the handle and bring it up again. That was enough to get me through the repeated passages, I could do that like a da-da-da-da-da-da-daaaaaa (spoken very quickly) and then the notes would be longer so I would grab the handle more firmly for the longer notes.
GL: Great stuff! Thank you. Throughout the majority of the first movement, it sounds like you're fairly much just sticking to one chanterelle. In the second movement it sounds like you add a low octave 'g' chanter, and then in the third movement you're back to your higher pitched chanters. What was your approach to coming up with the arrangements to that, by which I mean which string goes where for which movement and what piece?
JK: I love the Aquitaine for it's upbeat sound. It's got a delightedly celebratory sound that's very sweet and at the same time very bright like a trumpet. Not the trompette on the hurdy gurdy, but like a real trumpet. I felt that for the two outer movements that that instrument would really sing. I just loved it for that. It had all the gaiety and sprightly charm that I think Haydn loved. For the middle movement, because it's so sweet and luscious, I felt that the larger instrument, the LaPriel would give me more of a cutting edge with that deep richness. I loved the lower strings on it for that, plus I could do a lot more of like a cello vibrato on that, and it came off just fine. I love the idea of switching instruments, in fact a lot of the players asked me 'Why do you switch instruments?' and I explained it live. They were quite interested in that.
GL: I notice that you change from one instrument to another between the first and second movement. I've never seen that before in a concert setting. Tell how that worked, live in front the audience with the orchestra at your back.
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JK: You know, I had the hurdy gurdy on a small table and I was very self conscious when everyone was waiting for me to change instruments. But at the same time, I look at it this way: let's say you're playing a piece and you're a violinist or violist and you have to tune between movements. That's sort of the way I look at it, we're between movements and we understand that the musicians are getting ready for the next, and the soloist must retune. In this case I didn't have to retune, but I was changing my hurdy gurdies. What I find fascinating about hurdy gurdies is that no one instrument can have everything you want, unlike a violin where everything is built to one specification. Even if you get three large hurdy gurdies with all the strings you want on them, you can swap out strings to play in different keys, and different setups, etc. For me I think it would be standard operating procedure to have two instruments on the concert stage. I know that's kind of a new thing for people, but looking at the way the instrument functions and what is required in the music, it's probably best to play more than one instrument.
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GL: Interesting approach! Throughout most of the piece, but most notably in the Finale, there's some terrific interplay between the organ and the hurdy gurdy. I know that both instruments were used so as to mimic the sound of the Lira Organizzati, and you guys certainly nailed it. I can't help but wonder how much time you spent in rehearsal with the organist, and also the orchestra before the performance.
JK: Larry Rapchak, the orchestra conductor, is an amazing musician. He came to my house about three or four times and we ran through it. I just thought we would be doing the solo parts, and here Larry sits down on my synthesizer and he's playing the whole orchestra part! The guy is amazing, he can just play it all. He's an amazing keyboard artist. So Larry and I practiced about three or four times, an hour each time. Then we had one evening rehearsal with the orchestra, and then a rehearsal right before the concert. All in all Larry and I practiced about four hours, and then another two hours with the orchestra.
GL: When I listen to the Finale from the Haydn Notturno, I'm hearing some impressive note runs, especially in the upper octave. They sound very demanding in terms of speed, and your execution is excellent. I'm curious about your technique; when doing those rapid runs up & down the keychest, do you do crossovers / crossunders with your fingers, or do you rely on rapid repositioning of your hand?
JK: That's an interesting question, I had to approach that in terms of what was best suited to the music. You can do crossovers and crossunders just like a harpsichordist or pianist, but after looking at the finale, it goes so fast, it's at such a great quip, that you cannot afford a bumble. You just absolutely cannot afford even the chance of your fingers not being able to turn under fast enough, or your fingers not being able to turn over fast enough. So what I did was shifting, I just practiced shifting very quickly. And what I found that really worked with shifting is to divide it up four and four. So, let's say it's an
octave run, just do the first tetra chord, the first four notes, shift your hand and then do the other four. This worked out like a charm. What I would do is take time, maybe an half an hour each day, where I would not even play the instrument, but rather shift my hand up and down just to get the feeling for where the keys are. The F# to G in the first octave really proved to be a challenge with the way that's positioned because to be able to get around that F#, I had to do a very fast little trill like F#, G, E, F#, and then back to G again. That was pretty tricky at the speed required, but again it's just something you
work with. I would say that in that case, repositioning with the scale passages especially helped. And then doing the trill passages, you just had to alternate fingers. In slower pieces, like the middle movement, that's when I would turn the fingers around and do the fingers over & under. That was better suited for that.
JK: Larry Rapchak, the orchestra conductor, is an amazing musician. He came to my house about three or four times and we ran through it. I just thought we would be doing the solo parts, and here Larry sits down on my synthesizer and he's playing the whole orchestra part! The guy is amazing, he can just play it all. He's an amazing keyboard artist. So Larry and I practiced about three or four times, an hour each time. Then we had one evening rehearsal with the orchestra, and then a rehearsal right before the concert. All in all Larry and I practiced about four hours, and then another two hours with the orchestra.
GL: When I listen to the Finale from the Haydn Notturno, I'm hearing some impressive note runs, especially in the upper octave. They sound very demanding in terms of speed, and your execution is excellent. I'm curious about your technique; when doing those rapid runs up & down the keychest, do you do crossovers / crossunders with your fingers, or do you rely on rapid repositioning of your hand?
JK: That's an interesting question, I had to approach that in terms of what was best suited to the music. You can do crossovers and crossunders just like a harpsichordist or pianist, but after looking at the finale, it goes so fast, it's at such a great quip, that you cannot afford a bumble. You just absolutely cannot afford even the chance of your fingers not being able to turn under fast enough, or your fingers not being able to turn over fast enough. So what I did was shifting, I just practiced shifting very quickly. And what I found that really worked with shifting is to divide it up four and four. So, let's say it's an
octave run, just do the first tetra chord, the first four notes, shift your hand and then do the other four. This worked out like a charm. What I would do is take time, maybe an half an hour each day, where I would not even play the instrument, but rather shift my hand up and down just to get the feeling for where the keys are. The F# to G in the first octave really proved to be a challenge with the way that's positioned because to be able to get around that F#, I had to do a very fast little trill like F#, G, E, F#, and then back to G again. That was pretty tricky at the speed required, but again it's just something you
work with. I would say that in that case, repositioning with the scale passages especially helped. And then doing the trill passages, you just had to alternate fingers. In slower pieces, like the middle movement, that's when I would turn the fingers around and do the fingers over & under. That was better suited for that.
GL: After the completion of the piece, the conductor invited you to play some solo pieces on your own for the audience. I've never seen that in an orchestral setting before. I can't help but feel that the conductor's enthusiasm for the instrument was responsible for that. Was this part planned out in advance, or was his invitation spontaneous to the moment based on the audience response?
JK: Larry wanted me to do a couple of things on my own. He's very open minded and enthusiastic and he planned that with me. There are times when you want to highlight a soloist by having them do an unaccompanied solo, it's done sometimes but you're right, it's not done all the time. I'm very grateful that Larry wanted me to do that, it was a lot of fun.
JK: Larry wanted me to do a couple of things on my own. He's very open minded and enthusiastic and he planned that with me. There are times when you want to highlight a soloist by having them do an unaccompanied solo, it's done sometimes but you're right, it's not done all the time. I'm very grateful that Larry wanted me to do that, it was a lot of fun.
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GL: I notice you played Mouret's Fanfare Rondeau as one of your solo pieces. I love the way you play that, your trills & ornamentation are great, but notable to me is your use of the trompette. When I play I tend to emphasize just the main beats of a song, but you're using the trompette to get almost a counter rhythm to the melody. It's quite unexpected, but very interesting and musically very effective. How do you approach the trompette in your playing?
JK: I have so much to learn on the trompette, and would love to study with someone like Nigel Eaton whose trompette playing, I think, is just unparalleled. He's a wizard on that. But I find that when I'm playing something like Fanfare Rondeau or Beethoven's Ode to Joy, especially where there's a little bit of a longer note, that's where I start gyrating the crank a little bit to get the counter rhythm, as you say. I love that idea because I'm playing the whole sha-bang: melody, harmony, and now I've got a little snare drummer with me on percussion. I really really like counter rhythms. I approach it that way where there's a longer note especially; say I'm playing a bunch of 1/16th and 1/8th notes, and all of a sudden a quarter note comes up, I'll just throw in the counter rhythm with that to make it kind of polyphonic. |
GL: Let's get back to your non-public time. What are your practice habits? How much time per day, or per week do you spend rehearsing in private? Describe your regimen to me.
JK: Oh boy, that's something. I would like to have a regimen to practice, but because I have three to five gigs a day, I just can't count on a regular time to practice. So what I do is I actually use my gig time to practice. By that I mean right before the gig I'll practice the piece I'm going to play, and then right after the gig I'll practice for the next gig. It all adds up for the week, so that by the end of the week I'll have a couple of hours of practicing. In addition to that, during my composing time I'll play the hurdy gurdy while I'm composing, and just the playing of what I'm composing is great practice. Basically I
don't get as much separate practice time as I would like, I do pull it out for 15 or 20 minute periods at home for practice, but because I'm on the road so much I have to combine my practice time with my performing so I take as many holes in my schedule as possible. It all adds up.
GL: I'm getting from everything you're saying that the genre of music you tend to play most on the hurdy gurdy focuses around Classical, and maybe a little Baroque. Is that a fair assessment?
JK: I absolutely love Baroque, Classical, and Romantic. I also love folk music, Celtic, I love holiday music. I’m getting together a whole play list for the holidays. I love patriotic music too, I play 'My Country Tis of Thee' or the 'Star Spangled Banner'. It just gets people going with the trompette. I think the hurdy gurdy is so versatile, you can play just about anything on it. I'm really interested in exploring blues & jazz, even klezmer music on it. My favorites are Baroque, and anything in the Baroque genre: Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, those would be my favorites. Folk music too, I love playing 'Amazing Grace' or 'Scarborough Fair'. That's basically a wide circle of things I do.
GL: When it's time to learn a new song, is there any one single place that you'll reach for new music. Do you have a favorite resource or archive upon which you draw, or do you play by ear? How does that part of the process work for you, generating new tunes?
JK: For Baroque, I'll go to written music. For folk music, Celtic, Christmas, whatever, if I have written music I'll use it. Often I'll listen to a recording of someone doing it and I'll pick it up, trying to do it my own way.
GL: You're on your way to a gig tonight right? What are your favorite songs that you'll playing on the hurdy gurdy tonight?
JK: I'm going to open up with 'We Three Kings', then 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen', then 'Amazing Grace', Scarborough Fair, and then I'm going to end with 'My Country Tis of Thee'. These are mini-concerts that I'll do within my lectures. Later on in December I'm getting a playlist together of 10 Christmas songs, and I'm also composed my own called 'When Heaven Came to Earth', which is a hurdy gurdy song. At some point I'm going to come out with a whole Christmas c.d. of me playing the hurdy gurdy, and that will be the title cut.
GL: I wanted to conclude by asking about your plans for the future. It sounds like a Christmas c.d. focusing around the hurdy gurdy; any others?
JK: Absolutely! Several others. I would encourage your readers to check this out- Horicon Marsh (it's in Wisconsin), and I am so thrilled with this, it's one of the largest wetlands. I'm doing a c.d. project based on that which will feature the hurdy gurdy playing a major role. I'm also planning a project inspired by my travels to New Mexico, and I will have a lot of hurdy gurdy in that playing along with a Native American flute. I've got three hurdy gurdy projects on tap for the next few years, starting with the Christmas one. In addition to that I also have a book of classical music for the hurdy gurdy which I hope to make available.
GL: Great! Well Jim, thanks so much for your time.
JK: Thank you for having me.
JK: Oh boy, that's something. I would like to have a regimen to practice, but because I have three to five gigs a day, I just can't count on a regular time to practice. So what I do is I actually use my gig time to practice. By that I mean right before the gig I'll practice the piece I'm going to play, and then right after the gig I'll practice for the next gig. It all adds up for the week, so that by the end of the week I'll have a couple of hours of practicing. In addition to that, during my composing time I'll play the hurdy gurdy while I'm composing, and just the playing of what I'm composing is great practice. Basically I
don't get as much separate practice time as I would like, I do pull it out for 15 or 20 minute periods at home for practice, but because I'm on the road so much I have to combine my practice time with my performing so I take as many holes in my schedule as possible. It all adds up.
GL: I'm getting from everything you're saying that the genre of music you tend to play most on the hurdy gurdy focuses around Classical, and maybe a little Baroque. Is that a fair assessment?
JK: I absolutely love Baroque, Classical, and Romantic. I also love folk music, Celtic, I love holiday music. I’m getting together a whole play list for the holidays. I love patriotic music too, I play 'My Country Tis of Thee' or the 'Star Spangled Banner'. It just gets people going with the trompette. I think the hurdy gurdy is so versatile, you can play just about anything on it. I'm really interested in exploring blues & jazz, even klezmer music on it. My favorites are Baroque, and anything in the Baroque genre: Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, those would be my favorites. Folk music too, I love playing 'Amazing Grace' or 'Scarborough Fair'. That's basically a wide circle of things I do.
GL: When it's time to learn a new song, is there any one single place that you'll reach for new music. Do you have a favorite resource or archive upon which you draw, or do you play by ear? How does that part of the process work for you, generating new tunes?
JK: For Baroque, I'll go to written music. For folk music, Celtic, Christmas, whatever, if I have written music I'll use it. Often I'll listen to a recording of someone doing it and I'll pick it up, trying to do it my own way.
GL: You're on your way to a gig tonight right? What are your favorite songs that you'll playing on the hurdy gurdy tonight?
JK: I'm going to open up with 'We Three Kings', then 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen', then 'Amazing Grace', Scarborough Fair, and then I'm going to end with 'My Country Tis of Thee'. These are mini-concerts that I'll do within my lectures. Later on in December I'm getting a playlist together of 10 Christmas songs, and I'm also composed my own called 'When Heaven Came to Earth', which is a hurdy gurdy song. At some point I'm going to come out with a whole Christmas c.d. of me playing the hurdy gurdy, and that will be the title cut.
GL: I wanted to conclude by asking about your plans for the future. It sounds like a Christmas c.d. focusing around the hurdy gurdy; any others?
JK: Absolutely! Several others. I would encourage your readers to check this out- Horicon Marsh (it's in Wisconsin), and I am so thrilled with this, it's one of the largest wetlands. I'm doing a c.d. project based on that which will feature the hurdy gurdy playing a major role. I'm also planning a project inspired by my travels to New Mexico, and I will have a lot of hurdy gurdy in that playing along with a Native American flute. I've got three hurdy gurdy projects on tap for the next few years, starting with the Christmas one. In addition to that I also have a book of classical music for the hurdy gurdy which I hope to make available.
GL: Great! Well Jim, thanks so much for your time.
JK: Thank you for having me.
